Call to Order and Roll Call
The 1st meeting of the Budget Review Subcommittee on Justice and Judiciary of the Interim Joint Committee on Appropriations and Revenue was held on<Day> Thursday, September 28, 2017, at 10:00 AM, in Room 171 of the Capitol Annex. Senator Wil Schroder, Chair, called the meeting to order, and the secretary called the roll.
Present were:
Members: Senator Wil Schroder, Co-Chair; Representative Jason Nemes, Co-Chair; Senators Ray S. Jones II, John Schickel, and Whitney Westerfield; Representatives John Blanton, Daniel Elliott, Joseph M. Fischer, Jason Petrie, Phillip Pratt, Brandon Reed, Arnold Simpson, and Kevin Sinnette.
Guests: Gregory M. Bartlett, Judge, Kenton County Circuit Court; Marc Theriault, General Counsel, Administrative Office of the Courts; Ed Ross, State Controller, Office of the Controller, Finance and Administration Cabinet (FAC); Tammy Bullock, Director, Division of Administrative Support, Office of Administrative Services, FAC; and Gerald Hoppmann, Executive Director, Office of Policy and Audit, FAC.
LRC Staff: Zachary Ireland, Savannah Wiley, and Jennifer Beeler.
Discussion on the Process and Procedures Regarding Guardian Ad Litem
Judge Bartlett spoke on the issue of Guardian Ad Litem from a judicial perspective.
In response to a question from Representative Elliot, Judge Bartlett stated that he believes judges should not be in charge of which lawyers can represent clients in their courtrooms.
In response to a question from Representative Simpson, Judge Bartlett stated that the ten lawyers paid most by the state for Guardian ad Litem services are in Kenton County.
Mr. Theriault spoke on the role that the Administrative Office of the Courts (AOC) plays in the Guardian ad Litem process.
In response to questions from Chair Schroder, Mr. Theriault stated that the role of a Guardian ad Litem attorney is to represent those who, due to either legal capacity or age, are unable to represent themselves in court. Mr. Theriault noted that Guardians ad Litem most commonly represent children. Mr. Theriault confirmed that Guardians ad Litem earn up to $250 per district court case and up to $500 per circuit court case.
In response to questions from Chair Nemes, Mr. Theriault stated that Massachusetts and Virginia both have Guardian ad Litem program oversight and payment mechanisms housed within the Judicial Branch. Mr. Theriault noted that other fees that are approved by judges, such as payments for expert witnesses, are not approved by AOC and go directly to the Finance Cabinet.
In response to a question from Representative Simpson, Mr. Theriault stated that not all Guardian ad Litem payments are at the $250 or $500 cap. Those payments are determined by individual attorneys.
In response to a question from Senator Westerfield, Mr. Theriault confirmed that the Guardian ad Litem application for payment requires the attorney to certify that everything presented on the form is truthful.
In response to questions from Chair Schroder, Mr. Theriault noted that there is no requirement for attorneys to take AOC's Guardian ad Litem training course in order to participate as Guardians ad Litem. The Guardian ad Litem application for payment form has existed for several years.
In response to a question from Representative Simpson, Mr. Theriault stated that Kenton County is not the only county that utilizes closed panels, though the process used to determine Guardian ad Litem attorneys vary greatly throughout the state.
In response to a question from Representative Petrie, Mr. Theriault confirmed that there is a capped fee for Guardian ad Litem cases.
Ms. Bullock, Mr. Ross, and Mr. Hoppmann spoke on the role that the Finance Cabinet plays in the Guardian ad Litem process.
In response to questions from Chair Schroder, Mr. Ross stated that there is a statute that says the Finance Cabinet can pay in a current fiscal year anything that occurred in the two previous fiscal years. Ms. Bullock noted that payments are denied only if a form is incomplete or incorrect, the Finance Cabinet does not verify attorney hours worked per case. Ms. Bullock said that no one from the Finance Cabinet tracks cases related to Guardian ad Litem payments.
In response to a question from Representative Petrie, Ms. Bullock stated that there are checks to ensure there are no duplicate payments.
In response to questions from Senator Westerfield, Ms. Bullock noted that the Finance Cabinet does not sort Guardian ad Litem cases by county. Ms. Bullock stated that the Finance Cabinet does not pay more than $500 per Guardian ad Litem case.
In response to a question from Chair Schroder, Ms. Bullock stated that if there are trailer numbers in a case number to differentiate individuals in the same case that case could be paid out more than once due to the way cases are entered into the accounting system.
In response to a question from Representative Petrie, Ms. Bullock stated that invoice forms are received from both attorneys and court clerks.
In response to a question from Representative Fischer, Ms. Bullock noted that the accounting system keeps track of all payments.
In response to a question from Representative Elliott, Ms. Bullock stated that the Guardian ad Litem application for payment was reduced from a three page document to a two page document in order to get the payment into the accounting system and to pay the attorneys in a timelier manner.
In response to questions from Chair Schroder, Ms. Bullock stated that the total Guardian ad Litem payments over fiscal years 2016 and 2017 was around fourteen million dollars. Ms. Bullock confirmed that the total payments exceeded budgeted amounts by roughly nine million dollars. Mr. Hoppmann noted that the Finance Cabinet is undertaking an audit to review the way Guardian ad Litem payments are processed.
There being no further business before the subcommittee, the meeting was adjourned at 11:15 AM.