The 1st meeting of the Subcommittee on Natural Resources of the Interim Joint Committee on Agriculture and Natural Resources was held on Wednesday, July 14, 2004, at<MeetTime> 10:00 AM, in Room 149 of the Capitol Annex. Representative Keith Hall, Co-Chair, called the meeting to order, and the secretary called the roll.
Present were:
Members: Senator Ernie Harris, Co-Chair; Representative Keith Hall, Co-Chair; Senator David Boswell; Representatives Hubert Collins, James Gooch, Charles E. Meade, Brandon Smith, and Brent Yonts.
Guests: Sandy Gruzesky, Julie Smoak, and Lloyd Cress, Environmental and Public Protection Cabinet; Guy Delius and Ken Spach, Cabinet for Health and Family Services-Public Health; and Wade Helm, Kentucky Conservation Committee.
LRC Staff: Tanya Monsanto and Kelly Blevins.
Representative Hall thanked the committee members for their attendance and asked for a moment of silence in remembrance of the late Senator Paul Herron. Representative Hall introduced the subject for the meeting, alternative on-site waste disposal. He said that on-site waste disposal continues to be a problem throughout the state, and it is of particular concern for Eastern Kentucky. Representative Hall then invited representatives from the Environmental and Public Protection Cabinet (EPPC) to provide testimony.
Sandy Gruzesky with EPPC gave an overview of the cabinet's jurisdiction, statutory authority, and regulations governing on-site waste disposal. She provided a description of how different systems work. Then Ms. Gruzesky explained that a Kentucky Point Discharge Elimination System (KPDES) permit is required if there is a point source discharge into a Kentucky river, lake, or stream. The Division of Water implements the KPDES program under the authority of KRS Chapter 224.
Rep. Hall asked two questions. Is EPPC's role is to permit systems and to report to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) all inspections on water quality? Second, does inspection or permitting guidelines cause the most delay for those seeking to install on-site waste disposal system. Ms. Gruzesky replied that site evaluation for permitting takes considerable time. Then, Ms. Gruzesky explained that Senate Bill 18 created a backlog of KPDES permit applications; however, those applications are being processed and the number of permits outstanding are steadily declining.
Ms. Gruzesky described the membership and activities of the "wastewater working group." This group was formed to eliminate confusion about program jurisdiction, enhance public understanding of the process length, and streamline permitting requirements. The group has developed an application package which contains necessary forms, background information about the process, and a list that identifies types of approved systems and installers for those systems.
Rep. Hall asked if the approval list identifies different types of systems. Ms. Gruzesky said yes. Rep. Hall asked if a copy of the package could be provided to committee members. Ms. Gruzesky said yes. The she said that another goal is to improve the coordination between the Department of Public Health and the Division of Water. Training sessions are being conducted to raise awareness about alternative systems. We are conducting the training sessions throughout the state. We have brochures which have been made available to you today.
Rep. Hall indicated his approval of the training sessions and stated that both he and Rep. Collins had problems with local health inspectors. Sometimes they lack knowledge and expertise to help residents.
Ms. Gruzesky went on to describe the brochures. She stated these brochures are provided to homeowners, bankers, builders, and real estate brokers. Then Mr. Guy Delius spoke. He stated that Kentucky does have an innovative on-site sewage system program. Septic sewage permits are tracked. There are standards and a variety of sewage system options. Currently there are 28 systems available for residents to select from depending on their installation needs. The department's goal is to prevent problems of improper installation, contamination, and pollution of water supplies.
Rep. Hall asked for clarification about what the department is tracking. Mr. Spach stated that the department is tracking where systems are being located and the problems that those systems might experience. We do not track permitting timeframes. Rep. Hall stated that residents want to know where their application is in the permitting process. Mr. Spach replied that some states have adopted permitting deadlines. We have counties in Kentucky that are experimenting with 15 day deadlines. Rep. Hall stated that he and Rep. Collins were pleased to hear about this. When the 15 day deadline was drafted they considered allocating more time to the permitting process.
Rep. Collins stated that one problem is identifying where the permit starts. It is important that people at the local level understand the system options. Also, there are concerns about the general courtesy of inspectors towards permit applicants. Sometimes conflict results from discourtesy.
Senator Boswell asked about the training for the inspectors. It is important that they are instructed in how to deal with the public. Mr. Delius replied that the department is sharing their responsibilities. Each region has its own problems in siting systems. The east is mountainous and the west is karst.
Rep. Collins asked whether the inspectors are familiar with the 28 systems certified by the cabinet. Mr. Spach replied yes. Mr. Delius further described the training sessions for inspectors. We have had good experiences with this new training program. We have a new brochure which has been sent out to interested parties.
Mr. Spach said we have a unique challenge in Kentucky. There is the issue of protecting on-site water supply. Maintaining water quality for those residents who do have an on-site water supply is very important.
Sen. Harris asked if the on-site water systems were wells or cisterns and whether there are setback requirements for sewage disposal from those systems. Mr. Spach said they are cistern and yes there are setback requirements. Rep. Collins remarked that water quality is very important and water extensions continue to be a problem. He asked what stage in the permitting process is the most time consuming. Mr. Spach said he did not know. Rep. Collins asked how many systems approved by the cabinet have surface level discharges. Ms. Gruzesky said none of the approved systems have surface level discharges to groundwater.
Rep. Smith said in Eastern Kentucky water pollution is a problem, and we should protect river and stream water quality. Sen. Harris asked when inspectors and other training participants will have completed the program. Mr. Spach replied in October.
Sen. Harris asked how many homes in an area would constitute a large system. Mr. Spach stated approximately 110 homes. Rep. Hall thanked the presenters. He asked for the list of installers and for a time frame for the permitting process. Rep. Hall stated that it would be of benefit to the subcommittee to get an update that shows how many existing applications are handled.
A motion and second was made to adjourn. It was approved by voice vote.