The 4th meeting of the Subcommittee on Natural Resources of the Interim Joint Committee on Agriculture and Natural Resources was held on Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 10:00 AM, in Room 149 of the Capitol Annex. Senator Ernie Harris, Chair, called the meeting to order, and the secretary called the roll.
Present were:
Members: Senator Ernie Harris, Co-Chair; Representative W Keith Hall, Co-Chair; Senator David E Boswell; Representatives Hubert Collins, Terry Shelton, and Brandon D. Smith.
Guests: William Martin, Bruce Williams, Wade Stern, and Hugh Archer, Kentucky Conservation Commission; James Allen and Linda Magee, Republic Industries; Rick Bender, Stephen A. Coleman, Paris Charles, Commissioner Susan Bush, David W. Morgan, Commissioner Lloyd Cress, and Bruce Scott, Environmental and Public Protection Cabinet; Brent Frazier, Kentucky Department of Agriculture; Frances Ann Brown, PACE; and Judge Executive Mary Ann Baron, Green County.
LRC Staff: Tanya Monsanto and Kelly Blevins.
Chairman Harris called the meeting to order. A quorum was not present. He announced the Hurricane Relief Fund. Then he called Commissioner Cress of the Department for Environmental Protection, Bruce Scott, Director of the Division of Waste Management, and David Morgan Director of the Division of Water to the table.
Mr. Scott discussed four items. First was the Hazardous Waste Assessment Fees. Second was the Waste Tire Fee. Third was the Environmental Remediation Fee created by HB 174 in 2002. The Environmental Remediation Fee pays for the cleanup of illegal open dumps. The cabinet is considering legislation that would provide counties funds from the fee for recycling programs. The fourth item discussed was possible legislation to make Kentucky law mirror more closely the federal Resource Conservation and Recovery Act.
Representative Hall asked if 10 or more years is sufficient for post-closure cleanup monitoring. He was told the cabinet thinks a 30-year re-evaluation on 10-year intervals is appropriate, but they want discretion to set it at any point.
Chairman Harris stated that the post closure monitoring term used to be 10 years. Now we re-evaluate it. Chairman Harris asked if the term is established in budget or in statute. Mr. Scott stated that the environmental remediation fee sunsets, and it is up to the legislature to determine how long the fee would be extended for.
Chairman Harris asked if waste tires go to other states. Bruce Scott replied that Kentucky is number one in re-using tires.
Chairman Harris asked about the formula for setting the solid waste fee. Mr. Scott explained the formula for distribution of funds. Chairman Harris asked how many counties are free of open dumps. Bruce Scott replied that only a handful have open dumps, but if a county has few open dumps it could still be eligible for grants. Enacting legislation is needed.
Representative Collins asked if we have the ability to burn tires cleanly. Bruce Scott stated that combining tires with coal actually reduces emissions. It is clean burning if done in a controlled environment.
Next, Mr. David Morgan spoke for the Division of Water. He discussed the certification program for water well drillers, and he stated that penalties are insufficient for drilling without certification. Drillers just regard the fees as a cost of doing business. He said a penalty of $2,500 would be appropriate and it would be in line with other states.
Mr. Morgan discussed the SB 409 water planning. He stated that the water plan needs to include wastewater planning and to allow the division to conduct wastewater planning on a watershed basis rather than county by county.
Representative Collins stated that drinking water should be the top priority. He expressed opposition to any emphasis on wastewater until we get good drinking water.
Chairman Harris asked what the cost is for certification. David Morgan replied that it is not expensive and most drillers do comply.
Representative Hall asked for an elaboration on the wastewater program. Mr. Morgan stated that first it goes to the Facilities Construction Branch. Time is spent in consultation and there are oftentimes requests for additional information. Mr. Morgan stated that they have a 45-day limit on sewer extensions. They have two applications on backlog. Then Kentucky Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (KPDES) permits are performed. There is more backlog in KPDES, but the proposal to do wastewater planning should not divert from water extension planning. Allowing for wastewater planning will cause counties to think about both elements. He stated that we need to think about both elements statewide.
Representative Hall restated his position that drinking water is the first priority.
Representative Shelton asked what is the Division's relationship with local planning commissions and boards. Are we are creating a financial trap for them? Is there is a need to curtail development until there are wastewater plans?
Mr. Morgan stated the Division has a good relationships regarding 201 and 208 planning. There needs to be infrastructure for sewer. He said the Wastewater Advisory Group has discussed all these things. He said they are working with industry and local government.
Representative Collins asked if this could take money away from water supply extensions. He was told that it depends on which fund the money is taken from, and that local government can set the priorities.
Representative Collins asked if there is a check list for locals. He was told, yes, they do if people will follow it. Mr. Morgan stated that it isn't in every program. Commissioner Cress stated that that the department has established a Division of Compliance Assistance. He said that they probably do need checklists.
Chairman Harris asked about the distance requirement between sewer and water lines and whether they can be on the same easement. He was told if the easement is large enough then one can use the same easement, but that it may go on either side of the road. Representative Collins said that he thinks the distance is about 6 to 8 feet.
Commissioner Cress stated that the Division of Air Quality will conduct an asbestos removal training program, and that they have moved all training programs to compliance assistance branch. He stated that they want to change statutes to reflect that move.
Commissioner Bush shared issues that may require legislation. There will be an examination of blanket bonding. Current law allows $10,000 blanket for an unspecified number of wells. Also the cabinet will seek to change a provision for reapplication for a blanket bond after forfeiture. There may be KRS Chapter 350 cleanup legislation including the 5000 tons or less restrictions on construction projects without a permit.
Representative Hall stated that he had legislation to deal with the 5,000 ton limitation. He stated that he had a project which was an excavation project, not mining.
Representative Smith stated that he has seen valuable coal thrown away because it could not be sold or donated without violating existing law. He cited an example of a school in Hazard. He said we need to pressure Congress to resolve the issue.
Chairman Harris stated that the issue affects more than Kentucky. Commissioner Bush stated others states are affected may help to get congress working on the issue.
Senator Boswell cited a similar problem involving cleaning up an abandoned coal tipple. The cleanup was deemed to be surface mining.
Commissioner Bush stated that there may be some options under the Abandoned Mine Land program that are not available under the Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act (SMCRA).
Commissioner Bush discussed fly rock from blasting controls and the department's effort to curb fly rock incidents through training and enforcement. She also discussed substance abuse in mines and a substance abuse task force that is operating.
Representative Collins asked if drug tests can be requested/required, or if there is random drug testing. There is no random testing. Commissioner Bush stated that pre-employment testing and post-accident screening is needed.
Representative Smith spoke about the ways in which miners evade testing and the need to track employees who move from job to job to evade screening.
Mr. Bruce Williams and members of the Kentucky Conservation Committee presented testimony relating to the problem of conversion of land to other uses and efforts to preserve rural land. He discussed the Heritage Land Conservation Fund, the Department of Agriculture's PACE program, the Forest Conservation Act Forest Stewardship Fund, the Fish and Wildlife Resources programs for recreational access for sportsman.
Chairman Harris asked where funding comes from. He was told that the Heritage fund gets money from unmined mineral tax, environmental fines, nature license plates, and then donations.
Senator Boswell asked if PACE got direct funding. He was told, yes, there is an annual allotment from the state. Senator Boswell asked about administrative costs for the programs. Mr. Williams then discussed administrative costs and the funding for the four programs.
Ms. Mary Ann Baron discussed Projects in Green County funded by the Heritage Land Program. The PACE program was further discussed and Senator Boswell stated that a reliable funding level and source is needed.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned.