Interim Joint Committee on Licensing and Occupations


Minutes of the<MeetNo1> 1st Meeting

of the 2016 Interim


<MeetMDY1> June 10, 2016


Call to Order and Roll Call

The<MeetNo2> 1st meeting of the Interim Joint Committee on Licensing and Occupations was held on<Day> Friday,<MeetMDY2> June 10, 2016, at<MeetTime> 10:00 AM, in<Room> Room 149 of the Capitol Annex. Representative Dennis Keene, Chair, called the meeting to order, and the secretary called the roll.


Present were:


Members:<Members> Senator John Schickel, Co-Chair; Representative Dennis Keene, Co-Chair; Senators Joe Bowen, Tom Buford, Jimmy Higdon, Paul Hornback, Christian McDaniel, Dan "Malano" Seum, and Damon Thayer; Representatives Tom Burch, Denver Butler, Larry Clark, Daniel Elliott, Dennis Horlander, Joni L. Jenkins, Adam Koenig, Charles Miller, Jerry T. Miller, Brad Montell, David Osborne, Ruth Ann Palumbo, Sal Santoro, Arnold Simpson, Diane St. Onge, and Susan Westrom.


Guests: Larry Disney, Director, Kentucky Real Estate Appraisers Board; C.W. Wilson, The Wilson Education Group, Shelly Saffron, Director of Administration, Kentucky Real Estate Commission; Misty Edwards, Executive Director, Kentucky Commission on Proprietary Education; Mary Kathryn DeLodder, Director, Kentucky Home Birth Coalition; Rebecca Dekker, PhD., APRN, Researcher, Evidence Based Birth; Franklin S. Kling, Chairman, Marc Guilfoil, Executive Director, Kentucky Horse Racing Commission.


LRC Staff: Tom Hewlett, Jasmine Williams, Michel Sanderson, and Susan Cunningham.


Approval of minutes for November 13, 2015 meeting.

A motion to approve the minutes of the November 13, 2015 meeting was made by Representative Charlie Miller and seconded by Representative Burch. The motion carried by voice vote.


Kentucky Real Estate Appraisers Continuing Education

Larry Disney, Executive Director of the Kentucky Real Estate Appraisers Board, told the committee that in July 1990, the General Assembly created the Kentucky Real Estate Appraisers Board (KREAB). This was necessary because Congress had passed the Bank Lending Reform Act after the savings and loan collapse in the 1980s. The lack of appraiser education was noted as a common denominator throughout the United States. The federal act is unique in that it recognizes three groups to work together for appraiser licensing enforcement; state agencies that enforce programs, a private non-profit organization that establishes national minimum appraisal standards and qualifications, and a federal agency that monitors both the state programs and the a private non-profit that approves the education courses. The course curriculum for the programs offered must comply with the minimum education requirements established by the Appraiser Qualification Board of the Appraisal Foundation in Washington, D.C. The KREAB continually receives high achievement recognition for the process used to approve appraisal education courses, providers, and instructors. Reciprocity has been approved and offered to any state in the U.S. that offers federally approved courses. Kentucky has been cited as a model for offering approved courses. Most providers in Kentucky offer five courses a year, although some only offer one course. Classes are often 10 or fewer students. Most providers do not have staff or a fixed location.


In March 2016, KREAB began receiving notices from education providers that they were going to stop offering courses in Kentucky because of added requirements for approval from the Kentucky Commission on Proprietary Education. Providers complained that the cost of initial application and renewal were not only expensive, $2,000 to $5,000, but they are burdensome due to the amount of staff time to prepare documentation that was more applicable to colleges and universities than the smaller education providers. Some providers have said it would be more cost effective to apply for course approval in one of the seven surrounding states, then offer those courses to Kentucky residents. Because of reciprocity, KREAB will recognize and approve the education offered in other states. There is no college or university in Kentucky that offers a course of study for real property credential for appraising.


 The KREAB has met with the Kentucky Council on Post-Secondary Education to request exemption, however, because of existing language in KRS 165A no exemption can be allowed for the education providers for Kentucky appraisers. The KREAB’s mission is to protect both the public and regulated lenders through approved education. There are other existing boards that are exempt from requirements the Commission on Proprietary Education enforces. The KREAB would ask that, because they are regulated by federal regulatory oversite, it would also be recognized as exempt from the Kentucky Commission on Proprietary Education licensing requirements. It is believed that this exemption would allow Kentucky to continue the same quality, reliable service, competency and professionalism that has been provided since 1990.


In response to a question from Representative Keene, Mr. Disney said KREAB is a regulatory body and must comply with the federal criteria for appraiser education.


C. W. Wilson, representing The Wilson Education Group, said his school has provided real estate appraisal continuing education classes since 1991. The classes are approved by KREAB and meet the requirements listed in the Minimum Qualifications Criteria of the Appraiser Qualification Board of the Appraisal Foundation, as enforced by the Appraisal Subcommittee of the Federal Financial Institution Examination Council.


Until two year ago, he received his business license through the State Board of Proprietary Education. However, in 2016, the Kentucky Commission on Proprietary Education began to require a range of criteria, including copies of student transcripts and statements of student accounts that are not applicable to the scope of his particular school. This places barriers that are not relevant and are duplicative of the primary scope and mission of the KREAB. It will also be difficult to recruit new individuals to teach continuing education classes because of these new requirements.


In response to a question from Representative Burch, Mr. Wilson said the education being presented was the result of a federal act in 1990 because of the lack of education in the industry at the time. The duplication of layers of approval is the issue. Mr. Disney added that there are no intervening groups regarding the KREAB and the Kentucky Real Estate Commission that make decisions regarding the level of continuing education. Most providers are small providers for both the commission and the appraisers’ board. However, because of a recent change in statute, providers are now required to provide a catalog of courses offered and a policy for transfer of credits. These providers do not offer credits. They provide education or continuing education that is mandated by the KREC or the KREAB, very specific course content. The market controls what a real estate appraiser is paid.


In response to a question from Senator McDaniel, Mr. Disney said he would like for KREAB and KREC to be included in the group of boards that is exempted in KRS 165A from the criteria the Commission on Propriety Education requires. Most of the requirements they have been asked to meet are not relevant to the scope of their providers.


In response to a question a question from Representative Westrom, Mr. Disney said the cost to prepare the documentation for licensure was between $3,000 to $5,000.


Shelly Saffron, Director of Administration for the Kentucky Real Estate Commission said she was present because the commission has many of the same concerns as the appraisers’ board. There are currently 13,000 active licensees; they are required to obtain six continuing education hours annually. To obtain a license, they must have 96 hours of education in the field. There are 14 pre-license providers and 20 continuing education providers. The approval process requires providers to submit a course application, an instructor application, and payment of required fees. They must submit evaluations of course completions and the Real Estate Commission has monitoring rights to all of the providers.


The real estate pre-license providers do not operate like typical colleges and universities. The pre-license providers are prohibited, by statute, from recruiting. Real estate license holders have independent contract agreements. The proprietary schools are small independent business. For these reasons, KREC is asking for an exemption.


Misty Edwards, Executive Director of the Kentucky Commission on Proprietary Education, said the commission was established in 2012, replacing the Board of Proprietary Education. The commission’s role is to protect consumers enrolling in a school or taking a course at a proprietary school. KRS 165A authorizes the commission to license schools located or doing business in the state, including resident or non-resident schools that are charging a fee or tuition. The commission oversees the Student Protection Fund, which is a $500,000 fund to reimburse students in the event a school closes.


The commission regulates any for-profit, proprietary school. The Kentucky Real Estate Appraisers Board falls into the definition of privately owned for-profit school: a school that is privately owned, offering or administering a plan, course, or program of instruction in business, trade, technical, industrial, or related areas for which a fee or tuition is charged. KRS 165A exempts a school or educational institution, or a course or courses of study or instruction sponsored by the Kentucky Board of Barbering, the Kentucky Board of Hairdressers and Cosmetologists, the Kentucky Board of Nursing, the State Board of Embalmers and Funeral Directors, or the Kentucky Council of Postsecondary Education. But only those specifically mentioned are exempted from the provisions of the law.


The commission licenses 152 schools, most of which are small business owners with one to five staff members, covering a broad spectrum of fields. In 2014, changes to administrative regulations allowed schools that were already accredited to forgo submitting a curriculum catalog. However, schools that are licensed by the commission must submit a course catalog, student transcript records, and other documentation with the application for license. When a school makes an application, it must submit a surety bond at a minimum of $20,000. If the school employs staff enrolling people in the state of Kentucky, the school must have an agent bond at $5,000.


The overall mission of the commission is to protect the student and to help small businesses in the Commonwealth to be successful.


Representative Keene said that he sponsored the 2012 proprietary education legislation. It was not intended to be so far-reaching and has resulted in unintended consequences. As a result, the legislation will be revisited.


In response to a question from Representative Jerry Miller, Ms. Edwards said that since she has been Executive Director there have not been any real estate appraisal schools go out of business that left students with a large amount of debt. She added that, depending on the school’s profit, there is a tier that is relevant to what the application fee is.


In response to a question from Senator Seum, Ms. Edwards said there was a fee increase in 2014 and she would get that information to him.


Kentucky Home Birth Coalition

Mary Kathryn DeLodder, volunteer leader with the Kentucky Home Birth Coalition, said home both was different today than it was 60 years ago. There are many reasons people choose home birth. Home birthers are very informed about pregnancy and home birth.


There are two types of mid-wives. There are nurse midwives, licensed in all 50 states, who have completed graduate level courses. These advanced practice registered nurses specialize in midwifery. There are 87 practicing in Kentucky. Only four of these attend home birth, and there are no physicians who attend home birth.


The Kentucky Home Birth Coalition is asking for licensure of non-nurse midwives who have completed specific education and training to be nationally credentialed as what is known as a Certified Professional Midwife (CPM). The program is accredited with competency based clinical requirements from the North American Register of Midwives. Currently home birth is an underground market in Kentucky. You have to know someone who can put you in contact with a home birth midwife. There is no way to verify if the person is trained in home birth.


A CPM provides care from the beginning of pregnancy through the post-partum period. Appointments last about an hour and can be either at the home or in the office of the CPM. The standard for home birth is two trained individuals. The midwife brings supplies of everything needed for the birthing process. After the birth the midwife performs routine checks of mom and the baby. The midwife will return to evaluate the mom in 24 hours, 48 hours, one week, two weeks and then finally at six weeks.


The coalition has support from the Kentucky Chapter of the American College of Nurse Midwives. The coalition has met with The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists to discuss similar legislation that will soon become effective in Maine. There are plans to meet with the Kentucky Hospital Association to discuss their concerns. The coalition has yet to meet with the Kentucky Medical Association.


In response to a question from Senator Schickel, Ms. DeLodder said there is nothing to require parents to have a licensed midwife in the home at the time of the birth. Rebecca Dekker, Ph.D., APRN, Researcher, added that there are accidental births at home so putting restrictions on who could be there would be difficult.


Senator Schickel commented that now was the time for all interested parties to have a discussion rather than wait until the session to ask for changes.


Senator Thayer commented that he agreed with Senator Schickel and asked that the coalition not become discouraged. He and Senator Alvarado have discussed this topic, and Senator Alvarado is going to sponsor legislation during the next session.


In response to a question from Representative Westrom, Ms. DeLodder said the PKU test is done and there is ultra sound access through local hospitals.


Senator Buford commented that next session would be the fourth time that this bill would come before the session. He added that midwifery is not illegal in Kentucky, but the coalition is trying to become licensed to do the right thing.


In response to Representative Burch, Ms. DeLodder said the state test, PKU, is done by a heel prick. The midwife came back the day after the birth of her daughter, pricked her daughter’s heel, blotted it on a card and mailed the card to a lab in Frankfort. Local audiologists provide hearing screenings for the home birth babies.


In response to a question from Senator McDaniel, Ms. DeLodder said nurse midwives provide services in hospitals. The coalition would like a license for those who are trained in home birth. The coalition is using the North American Registry of Midwives for credentialing of certified midwives. Kentucky law requires a state permit to practice. In 1975, administrative regulations were changed to prohibit permits from being issued. Since 1975, a permit has been required, but no agency has issued the required permit.


Kentucky Horse Racing Commission

Marc Guilfoil, Executive Director of the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission, said he has been with the commission 28 years and has been accredited as a racing steward throughout that period. Since becoming the executive director, he has addressed the Jockey Mount Fee and successfully increased the losing mount fee. Recently, a lawsuit was brought against Kentucky regarding claiming races that went to the Supreme Court, where the state prevailed. However, he has advised horseman to consider changing rules regarding claims and losing horses to other states. The staff has recently been reassigned and new people are coming to enhance the ability to work toward safer racetracks.


Franklin S. Kling, Chairman of the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission, told the committee that this was his third appointment to the commission. The Governor has appointed all the members of the new commission. There are also nine committees that will soon have all appointments filled.


In response to a question from Representative Keene, Mr. Kling said in general there are two priority areas, safety of the horse and jockey, and to add value to the industry. The second is very challenging because the state is not on a level playing field. There are 38 entities Kentucky is competing against. However, the commission looks forward to working on improving what the state has now.


Senator Thayer said he wanted to endorse the appointments that Governor Bevin had made.


Representative Palumbo thanked Marc Guilfoil for the outstanding job he has done and his dedication to the horse industry in Kentucky.


Representative Osborne stated that he believed this commission was the most qualified Kentucky has had.


In response to a question from Representative Burch, Mr. Guilfoil said the commission is awaiting results of a study regarding the use of Lasix 24 hours before a race. Lasix issues are the biggest issues that need to be settled. This medication issue is very divisive. This commission is dedicated to a resolution. He explained that the Breeders Incentive Fund is an awards program that gives a bonus to Kentucky-bred race winners.


In response to a question from Representative Clark, Mr. Guilfoil said that even though HB 102, regarding the excise tax for the development fund and the splits for Red Mile and Keeneland, did not pass in the last session, it is the opinion of the Revenue Cabinet that the commission can implement the intent of the legislation.


In response to a question from Representative Westrom, Mr. Guilfoil said the administration of Lasix on race day is limited to four hours before the race. That is supported by studies.


In response to a question from Representative Jenkins, Mr. Guilfoil said there are two women on the racing commission but no minorities. Regarding expanded gaming, that would be a decision that the commission on the whole would have to take a position on.


Representative St. Onge stated that she would like to welcome Mr. Kling as commissioner.


Senator Thayer commented that he did not believe it was appropriate for the commission as a regulatory body to make policy recommendations on expanded gaming.


There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 11:31 AM.