Call to Order and Roll Call
The third meeting of the Interim Joint Committee on Local Government was held on Wednesday, September 24, 2014, at 10:00 AM, in Room 171 of the Capitol Annex. Representative Steve Riggs, Chair, called the meeting to order, and the secretary called the roll.
Present were:
Members: Senator Joe Bowen, Co-Chair; Representative Steve Riggs, Co-Chair; Senators Ernie Harris, Christian McDaniel, Albert Robinson, Dan "Malano" Seum, Damon Thayer, and Reginald Thomas; Representatives Julie Raque Adams, Ron Crimm, Mike Denham, Adam Koenig, Stan Lee, Brian Linder, Tom McKee, Michael Meredith, Arnold Simpson, Kevin Sinnette, Rita Smart, and Jim Wayne.
Guests: Michael Davis, David Moore, and Dennis Rodgers, Department of Housing, Buildings and Construction; Peter Kraska, Eastern Kentucky University; Rick Sanders, Jeffersontown Chief of Police; J.D. Chaney and Bert May, Kentucky League of Cities; and Shellie Hampton, Kentucky Association of Counties.
LRC Staff: Mark Mitchell, John Ryan, Joe Pinczewski-Lee, Kate Talley, Scott Kimmich, and Cheryl Walters.
Approval of Minutes
Upon the motion of Representative Crimm and second by Representative Linder, the minutes of the August 27, 2014 meeting were approved.
Consideration of Referred Administrative Regulations
The committee considered the following referred administrative regulations, which relate to the Department of Housing, Buildings and Construction’s Division of Plumbing: 815 KAR 20:040 (truck identification); 815 KAR 20:050 (installation permits); 815 KAR 20:060 (quality and weight of materials); 815 KAR 20:070 (fixtures); 815 KAR 20:090 (soil, waste, and vent systems); 815 KAR 20:130 (house sewers and storm water piping; methods of installation); and 815 KAR 20:191 (minimum fixture requirements). Representative Riggs stated that a written report of the review will be submitted to LRC.
Militarization of Police
Representative Riggs stated that the purpose of the meeting was to give members a better understanding of how the use of military-style equipment affects local agencies their communities. Law enforcement agencies in Kentucky have equipped themselves with military equipment for years through the Department of Defense’s 1033 program, which provides refurbished military equipment at no cost or at discounted prices.
Dr. Peter Kraska, Chair of the Justice Graduate Studies Program at Eastern Kentucky University has researched the militarization of police over the last 25 years. He said that there should be a clear line between US military forces and civilian police forces, but the line is blurring significantly.
The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 prohibited the military and civilian police from training and working together, thereby keeping them separate. The Reagan Administration pushed for the Act’s repeal, but it is still in place. However, amendments have allowed the military to aid civilian police when needed.
In the mid-1980s, there were 3,000 Special Weapons and Tactics Team (SWAT) deployments per year. By 2014, there were 60,000 SWAT deployments per year. The SWAT teams went from 98 percent reactive deployments to 85 percent proactive deployments, which were drug raids at private homes. This is not the norm for Kentucky. The issue is the normalization of a mindset.
There are three avenues for military grade equipment and weaponry: (1) Department of Homeland Security/Department of Justice; (2) Department of Defense’s 1033 program; and (3) asset forfeiture, which amounts to massive sums of money confiscated by local police.
The key is misapplication of military equipment by local police. The weapons have been abused and used inappropriately.
Representative Riggs said that there is a lot of controversy and concern about local police use of the equipment and insufficient training for local police military-style work.
Chief Rick Sanders, Jeffersontown Chief of Police and President of the Kentucky Association of Chiefs of Police, said he was testifying because of what happened in Ferguson, Missouri, where officers responded to protests and riots using military-style weapons against civilians. Police departments need equipment because the military will not be able to respond. The responders will be police, firemen, and EMS. Tools need to be given to the officers so they can do their jobs. Most of the equipment that the Jeffersontown Police Department uses from the 1033 program is in the form of first-aid kits, stretchers, and knives. There are escalating instances such as the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon, local hostage taking, and weapons discharging in which other equipment might be needed.
He said the it is important to hold officers accountable for misuse of equipment but not to prohibit them from using it properly. Police officers do a good job 98 percent of the time.
In response to a question from Representative Smart, Dr. Kraska said that a large percentage of the armored vehicles used by local police are new and built by private sector companies.
In response to a question from Representative Adams, Chief Sanders said that more officers and equipment are needed. If the police departments can use the 1033 program to obtain some of that equipment and then use the tax dollars for additional officers, then that is the prudent thing to do. Dr. Kraska said the issue is whether it is more important to have a $300,000 vehicle or more officers. The vehicles are not being used in most localities.
Representative Riggs said that no one oversees the misapplication of equipment. There should be a review by someone who is not biased.
In response to a question from Senator Thomas, Dr. Kraska said that the issue is not whether police should be properly outfitted to handle serious situations; they need to be. However, there are unintended consequences of a massive federal program that is taking supplies from the Iraq war and transferring them to the democratic civilian police.
In response to a question from Senator Thomas, Chief Sanders stated that if a chief is not acting responsibly he should be replaced. Leadership, training, and accountability are keys.
Senator Seum said that after 9/11, people from surrounding communities went to New York City to help. One of the biggest problems noted when it was over was that a lot of police, EMS, and fire departments could not communicate with each other. As Chair of the Veterans and Military Affairs Committee, he invited Homeland Security to talk to the committee. It was discovered that there was no ability to communicate with each other even in Jefferson County, Kentucky. The committee held a meeting in Owensboro with several communities to find out what was going to be done. A result was that a lot of equipment, such as radios, went through Homeland Security to various communities that could not afford to buy it. He had been able to obtain equipment for some of his small cities so they could communicate with each other in times of emergency.
In response to a question from Representative Sinnette, Dr. Kraska said that he had conducted a multi-year study, looking at Section 1983 civil rights cases in particular, involving quick knock and no-knock controversial raids. It is extremely difficult to win a lawsuit against a municipality or a police department, so the success rate is not very high. He found that there is a lot more of this activity taking place. DEA policies prompted pursuit of small-time drug offenses. This type of entry is a disproportionate response to a low-level offense and places police in harm’s way. Chief Sanders stated that he believes that SWAT is not being used for small-time drug offenses, and that his department does everything possible before serving a warrant.
Representative Riggs said that he hears a lot about data breaches and identity theft. He asked Chief Sanders to take that message back to his police department.
Representative Wayne said that he sees common ground between Chief Sanders and Dr. Kraska in that there is a need for public safety. There should be professionals who are trained when a crisis occurs. More importantly, there is the need to invest in the prevention infrastructure. There should be investment in mental health services and treatment facilities for those addicted to drugs and alcohol.
Senator McDaniel said that elected officials have a heavy responsibility and are accountable for their actions relating to police personnel and policies.
In response to a question from Senator McDaniel, Chief Sanders stated that warrants must be signed by a judge.
Representative Meredith said that community policing is taught in his county. His cities have assault equipment but he has never seen it. Officers need to be trained to use the equipment properly. Chief Sanders said that his department’s Humvees are used for transportation.
Senator Thayer thanked Chief Sanders for his service in protecting the innocent people of Kentucky.
Senator Thayer asked Dr. Kraska how much real life experience he had either in the military or with law enforcement. Dr. Kraska indicated that he worked with at least 60 police departments around the country and with departments around the world. Senator Thayer noted that the record should reflect that his question was unanswered.
Chief Sanders said that he has a passion for law enforcement and wants to protect the officers and the community. He urged the legislature not to take away the necessary tools that police departments need. He also urged leadership, training, and accountability.
Dr. Kraska said that he cares about protecting the citizens and is not anti-police. Police serve on the front line in crime and on the front line in governmental legitimacy. He is concerned that police and government lose legitimacy when there are responses involving massive levels of weaponry and when there are no-knock drug raids.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 11:50 p.m.